@Tom94

Tom Long Dong

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Have you considered simply adding up the pp for the different individual combo sets for tag4 (as in, instead of counting it as one map with lost of insane jumps, it is four maps (one for each color) with lots of time to move your cursor).

That would require per-hitobject data. And it again would be special treatment for specific maps. There simply is no way to unify touch and cursor-based input in one difficulty system. What's hard for one is easy for the other and vice versa.

Could you clarify what you meant by "spaced streams are impossible on a touchscreen"? It seems doable if you use a pen or something and just go along with it while tapping with your other hand.

And how are you switching between finger input and pen + kb taps within the split second you have when seeing the stream?

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i don't think tag4 maps was the problem. i think the fact that ez+ht are rankable is.

The problem was and is still, that there exists no unified difficulty algorithm that accurately describes the difficulty of maps both with touch input and with cursor input at the same time.
The fact that the ranking guidelines and the game in general is tailored to cursor input is what ends up making this a non-issue while still allowing touch input. Some of the tag4 maps however violated that assumption.
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Liked by: -cr1mmy-

Kuvster here. Is there a way to remove my score without affecting the non-touchscreen players' scores? I don't understand why -GN and MillhioreF need to be affected by this.

Unfortunately no.
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Liked by: -cr1mmy-

better then making tag4 be 0 PP u should not allow players to use touchscreen BECAUSE its overpowered on maps like kanojo nanoka AND is too hard to use on streams which makes it uselless most of the time SO ppl who tried hard like -GN dont get fucked because of some people lazyness

Are you seriously asking me to take away players' ability to use their input device? Drawing a pentagram around the osu! servers and chanting pp prayers would be more reasonable.
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Liked by: waefwerf Ｎ Whale~ Jugment kablaze -cr1mmy- Rivastyx Rawberryish mithew Shawkify

http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/124995481294 there are teleporting cursor balls all over my screen nigga why cant your fancy computer code magics detect that

That wouldn't work on all kindsa muthafuckin levels. Guess what tha fuck happens ta tha cursor between any two frames up in tha game. Right, it teleports a given distance. That ridin' solo already make detectin bust a nut on input versus straight-up fast movement impossible fo' realz. At tha same time analyzin replays automatically would be like some effort ta implement fo' realz. And lastly, our phat asses aint gots replays fo' every last muthafuckin score.
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Liked by: Fataliis dcv Try Harder HandHeldPillow 枕ーチャン RuBen42 kablaze -cr1mmy- Whale~ previously known Tatch

Should cirno's math class really be counted as a tag map? It's perfectly FC'able with a mouse/tablet...

Tag4 maps should categorically never have contributed to the ladder due to ranking criteria. One particular tag4 map being broken was merely the trigger for this change to happen, not the sole reason.
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Liked by: desso me la dai visto che mi -cr1mmy- DroppedBass

http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/125007238606 but some of those actually have legitimate normal scores on them... isn't that penalizing the best players for being too good?

Nobody apart from -GN and Kuvster had a significantly pp gain from those maps. Even MillhioreF only lost 71pp. And even if the top players had much pp on those maps. I prefer penalizing them on 8 maps rather than on thousands of other potential maps (maaany maps get friggin hard with DT).
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Liked by: DroppedBass Tang Kynan FunOrange Rawberryish VnSoul My Angel Yui Teamplayer Michael Warming Aislinn Mcsorley

http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/125007695054 but you said it yourself. maps like this will never be ranked again, why does an unbiased algorithm need to work for weird cases like this?

de3tz’s Profile Photodeetz
Because if somebody made an identical map yielding twice the difficulty that would be kinda shit, even if the map wouldn't be ranked. The difficulty is still displayed ingame and on the leaderboards.
And then again, who decides on the proper difficulty of the tag4 map that gets individual treatment? Customizing the algorithm would essentially just be me playing god and distributing pp to players how I feel like.
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Liked by: DroppedBass

Good job carrying out such a controversial action so quickly lol But those plays will still be seen on player's profiles and the pp values still will be displayed right? The interest factor of those plays is still pretty high. And what exactly counts as TAG beatmaps?

No pp value will be displayed on player profiles. It would be confusing people if it did. The scoreboards of the maps keep existing.
The following 8 maps are counting as tag maps. Let me know if I missed any:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/27638
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/35015
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/87570
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/24722
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/29844
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/58064
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/27737
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/48874
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Liked by: -cr1mmy- DroppedBass

why can't you nerf instant screen jumps on just those maps if there aren't going to be maps ranked like them again?

Making the difficulty algorithm different for individual maps would undermine the whole concept of having an unbiased algorithm do all the work.
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Liked by: kablaze DroppedBass Kynan

pp: [Tom94] Don't count tag beatmaps in pp calculations of standard mode. WHY TOM WHY???????????

See previous answer.

So I tried limiting the difficulty which you get from crazy jump patterns and I ended up being wrong. I can't easily do this without potentially crippling other scores.

Tom94’s Profile PhotoTom Long Dong
TL;DR: I disabled pp for all tag maps in osu! standard. Read further for more information.
osu! considers each of the jumps in the beginning of Kanojo Tag4 HT+Easy as hard as the hardest jumps in Maffalda DT. This means if I nerfed those jumps at the beginning of Kanojo Tag4, then it would also affect maps such as Remote control or Maffalda with HD and DT. I don't want to implement such a cap in difficulty, penalizing the very best players for being too good just because there exist 3-4 maps that can be exploited with a touch screen and which should never have been ranked in the first place.
Hence the logical conclusion: Stop those maps from being ranked in the sense of pp. They still have a scoreboard and all since the competition on them is really awesome, but they are just not suited for pp with the inclusion of touch screens. I also want to note that with the current ranking system in place it is pretty much impossible to get a map out where touch-screen users have such an advantage as on tag4 maps. If I end up being right with that, then there won't have to be further adjustments to compensate for touch screens. Hopefully I do, because otherwise there won't be such an easy fix. :/

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Liked by: Minus Deimos Try Harder Whale~ Như Lễ Kii alisa Tatch Rivastyx RuBen42

Why nerf instant screenjumps? Isn't it skillful to be able to hit those?

At some point you can assume that nobody playing with a tablet / mouse is able to hit them, hence the difficulty given by these jumps can be capped at that point. Don't worry, I'll make sure that the only maps affected by this are things like DT airman or tag4 nomod.
This means that tag4 maps are still worth a lot of pp. Just not as much as they are right now - especially that kanojo map.
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Liked by: DroppedBass Chupachupachupacabrus Mut4nte Pi My Angel Yui

http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/124783148750 https://osu.ppy.sh/u/4896624 pp sux

Oh, so you want hard jump patterns to be worthless? Sorry, my friend, but there is no reliable way to determine which part of a map was played with a specific input device.
That being said, the single issue in the entirety of the ranked maps in osu! are those instant screenjumps which _will_ get nerfed without affecting anything else, so expect those pp values to drop.
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Liked by: pyon Darklord142 VnSoul DroppedBass

Playing osu! on a touchscreen seems kind of unfair....I know it's not technically unfair because it's an allowed way of playing, but it subverts the aim component of osu! in strange ways...

Have you ever seen anyone do moderately spaced streams or stream/jump transitions on a tablet PC? No? That's because it's not possible.
Yes, aim gets easier, which makes it hella fun, but the simplest streams become a nightmare. Imho not exactly a broken way to play the game. Just different strengths.
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Liked by: Rawberryish DroppedBass VnSoul Tang ProxyPvP Rumia pyon -GN

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